User talk:Greg

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== Message Board ==
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It looks like you've been getting a lot of work done tonight. Let me know when you're done with the periodical pages.
 
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Also, I already had a section for copyright law in the PRC on my page. What we still need is the ROC (Taiwan).
 
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Finally, I have recently been reminded that "top-posting" is discouraged on most lists (H-Buddhism, etc.). Perhaps we should start bottom-posting again here on our discussion pages just to keep us in the good habit. What do you think?
 
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 10:22, 17 June 2009 (CST)
 
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The developer of the Firefox plugin responded to my thread. He can't duplicate the problem with initial vowels, but he did remind me that when writing in pinyin on Chinese keyboards one uses "V" instead of "Ü". It seems to work fine that way. He will also be looking at ways to deal with the issue of deleted digits. Hopefully new versions of the tool will see these improvements.
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I have several questions about the choice of page titles.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 19:46, 16 June 2009 (CST)
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1) What are your thoughts on romanizations for non-Chinese persons in their file names? E.g. Cressy, Reichelt, Richard. Should we use their English names followed by the 漢字 as the page titles? Also, what about institutions?
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OK, let's go ahead and add the template to the periodical pages. We can both work on them. For a format, I suggest (YEAR), X-X, (YEAR) X-X. The DDBC engine include dates of publication, but for periodicals that were printed for years, that could be a lot of data entry.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 22:27, 14 June 2009 (CST)
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2) For some pages (such as [[妙善]]), there are multiple entries, which I have separated into sub-headings. What do you think? This allows the reader to select which person they want to look at, but it does not follow the format we have established for biography pages.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 23:11, 31 March 2010 (CST)
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Templates certainly are powerful. I am not sure if adding that box to each periodical is something we want to take on right now.  On the [[MFQ]] and [[MFQB]] pages, I have provided a link to the DDBC MFQ search tool (which may also be the index to which you are referring). That may be enough.
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I have created the template Temple_infobox, and have used it for four pages (See "Recent changes"). If you could take a look at it when you get a chance, I would appreciate your feedback.
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That said, if we don't add it now, it will harder to add it later. I guess I am of two minds about this, but my inclination is not to include it.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 04:57, 3 June 2010 (CST)
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 20:59, 14 June 2009 (CST)
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Good work, sort of. Not knowing how these things work, I would say, "wow, that was easy," but 佛X articles sometimes still appears under T, and 王小徐 disappeared from the "Start" page entirely.
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After talking to you, I created the page [[Welch Project]]. Right now it just contains the list of chapters and headings as found in the book.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 05:02, 13 June 2009 (CST)
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 20:10, 17 June 2010 (CST)
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I am glad you can use it! I've used it already many times, mostly because my notes formed the basis for a lot of these early pages, so I know I can trust them.
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I think double-checking the articles we have before the one year anniversary is a good idea. I will take a look at all the pages for which I am listed as editor. I intend to finish my work on the grant by next Friday (before the one year anniversary). I have currently done 33.5 hours of 54 (around 62%). It looks like most of the most important geographic and temple articles have now been done and I am shifting back to biographies. Today I am going to start doing pages on a few Japanese missionaries and scholars active in China (Mizuno, Tokiwa, Ogurisu, etc.). I am hoping to finally do pages for Liang Qichao and Yinshun this week, too.
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FYI, I have gone through and edited all the periodicals, and have assigned an Edit Status to each. Please feel free to go through them at your leisure, just to get another set of eyes on them and so that we are on the same page with regard to what qualifies in each category. It is unfortunate that the Edit Status pages are all organized under the letter T (for Talk:Page_name). It will get real crowded in the As if we keep doing our jobs right.
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If you see anything you think we still really need, let me know and I will get to it.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 04:31, 13 June 2009 (CST)
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It looks like you are doing well on the periodical stuff. That's a good sign for your own work. Good luck.
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* That all looks good.
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* What do we do for XX山? just use XX shān with a space between, or Mt. XX. My vote is for the former.
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* We had a discussion about 佛學 vs. 佛教 on the Yahoo! list a couple of months back. Check there. I'm pretty sure I've seen it from the 1910s in China. My feeling is that there is a what I would call a "lexical resonance" with terms like 哲學 and 科學, which is why authors chose to use it in some cases.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 22:11, 12 June 2009 (CST)
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 00:02, 14 July 2010 (CST)
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I have added several pages, including a sample page for institution articles and a page on known issues with the Firefox pinyin converter. Please take a look and tell me what you think. I also wrote drafts for Edit Status criteria for periodical and biographical pages.
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I still think a clickable map is a good idea, but the one we have right now is a little too small to allow differentiation of places that are close together. If the map was larger I think we should still use it.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 21:22, 12 June 2009 (CST)
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I think I understand what you are saying about an intro line with the subject in bold. Had we agreed to do this for all types of articles (such as institution)? I can't recall. I know we wanted to do it with geo, bio, and temple articles. [[Blank_Institution]] and [[Blank_Periodical]] have not been edited to reflect this, nor has the latter been edited to include an infobox. I will do that now.
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* For 講寺, should we use "Lecture Temple" ? Or do you have a better suggestions? If not, we can put that up on the [[DMCB_Wiki:Community_Portal]].
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* The Edit Status page looks fantastic! Where should we put specific criteria for edit stats for periodical and biographical pages? I thought maybe on the '''Blank Template''' pages, but I am not sure. I will write up a rough of criteria for those two and put them on [[User:Erik_hammerstrom]].
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On a somewhat related note, I think it would be better if we leave disambiguation information for all articles at the top of the page (as in [[Foxue yuekan 佛學月刊]]), and not in any infoboxes (as you have done for [[Fojiao yuekan 佛教月刊]]). This is information that the reader should see first thing before proceeding into the article. I think placing it at the top would expedite this.
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* If you are willing, as soon as we hash out criteria for edit status on periodicals, let's say we are currently editing periodicals.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 01:37, 20 July 2010 (CST)
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]]
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Editing
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Greg, I am mostly fine with having people get approval to join. I say "mostly" for three reasons: First, we may not want to put any barrier up to having people join. Including us, I think we have about 2.5 active registered users currently and we shouldn't do anything that might discourage participation. Second, the system you propose would require us to list our e-mail addresses here, which would probably increase the amount of spam that we each receive (unless we put our addresses up as JPEG files, or use some other such measure). Lastly, the amount of spam accounts we have received has not seemed onerously large to me. This of course may change.
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* Do not capitalize Fó in pīnyīn
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These are my thoughts for now. If you really want to change how registration works, I will go along with it, but I tend to think it is unnecessary right now.
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(truncated)
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**** I don't mind capitalizing Fó in pinyin, but separating the syllables of place and temple names doesn't look natural. Běi jīng? There is an issue with 古寺 though - should it be translated as XXgǔ Temple, XX gǔ Temple, or XX Ancient Temple? This might be a good question for H-Buddhism.
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***** It's not pretty, but I guess I would go with "Ancient Temple" as 古 is modifying 寺, so if we translate 寺 we should also translate 古. OK on not separating syllables for name ''pinyin''.
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* Standardize English for 唯識
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 01:47, 5 November 2010 (CST)
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(truncated)
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**** Yogācāra is also a bit of a misnomer, considering how different the Chinese schools were from the Indian precedents. Consicousness-only sounds like a good standard for 唯識, but when we get to 法相唯識, or 唯識法相 how do we render them? Consciousness-only-dharmalakṣaṇa and vice-versa? We could just use the pinyin renderings of Weishi and Faxiang, much as is done with Huayan.
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***** How about using C-O and Dha. (fully written) when they appear individually. When together, use "and" E.g. Consciousness-only and Dharmalakṣaṇa. Trutufully, how often will that come up? My guess is that this will only be an issue with the titles of books and other works.
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* Hyperlink ALL names?
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== Standardize First/Subsequent References ==
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(truncated)
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**** This would imply that we expect one day to have a page on every name mentioned, but there are some figures about whom not enough is known to have a full bio page on them.
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*****OK, we don't need to link all names.
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So we've past June 10th, I guess we're in the editing phase. It sounds like some people that Marcus has talked to are eager to contribute to the project, so we should try to get everything ready for a public announcement if we can.
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I agree with what you propose (using pinyin only for subsequent citations of a term, name, etc. in Chinese).  
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* I thought we starting editing on the 15th. No matter to me. I will stop making new pages.  
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I was thinking of a system for checking the edit status of pages, something simple like A for well-edited pages, B for those needing some work, and C for pages that need a lot of work. This would help us keep track of which pages need attention. So there would be a line at the bottom of every page like
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The one thing I do not agree on is why if the term is part of the article title we do not use bold through the hole line. You suggest leaving the title not bold. It seems that placing the article title in bold is an issue of formatting, akin to placing something in quotation marks. One does not place only part of a term in quotation marks, but the entire string. For example:
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* "''Hǎicháo yīn'' 海潮音 (Sound of the Sea-Tide)"  
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Editing Status: C
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* NOT "''Hǎicháo yīn'' 海潮音" (Sound of the Sea-Tide)
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Do you see what I mean?
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to remind us of where we think the page is at. There ought to be a system for keeping track of this, collecting lists of "C" pages for example. I'll look into it, maybe there's an extension we can use. In any case let's try to follow the guidelines we've set out and get most of the extant pages into a decent state. They don't have to be close to "finished" but should at least provide a good chunk of information at this early stage.
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* I'll use your template. I was thinking that we could start with one category, and both work on that. Perhaps periodicals, as those are shorter entries. We should both go through them. I don't have much data to add for them, so even if they get a C or B, I couldn't add much right now.  So I guess, let's decide on what qualifies for each grade in each category. Perhaps we could make a page for each? Or we could write on the discussion page for the various category pages ("Institution", etc.) what the different grades mean.
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It's exciting what Marcus said about others want to join in the work. I am excited to see others contribute.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 04:19, 12 June 2009 (CST)
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''''Edit issues:'''
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I see what you mean about using half bold, half not bold for main entries, but it seems an unnecessarily complex formatting request. Also, aren't we placing the item in bold font because it is the main entry?  
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* Add a Date Ordained line to bios?
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** Excellent idea, though we should distinguish between different types/levels of ordination. Could also note date of refuge ceremonies for laypeople
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*** OK.
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* Do not capitalize Fó in pīnyīn
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** Is this standard?
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*** I have been looking around, I believe that we actually should capitalize it, if it is a proper noun. (Which I believe it to be). See [http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:_iyuR-5ZclMJ:www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/chinese.pdf+capitalize+pinyin&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a this article]. According to this, we should also separate the syllables of place and temple names (e.g. Kāi fú Temple 開福寺). There is, of course, much misinformation regarding pinyin, and if we chose not to follow the latter rule, I think we'd be OK.
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* Standardize English for 唯識
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** And 法相, and 唯識法相 for that matter. The DDB might have standard suggestions, or we could throw it to H-Buddhism
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*** I follow Lusthaus in translating 唯識 as "Consciousness-Only." Perhaps we should call 法相 ''dharmalakṣaṇa''. I know ''yogācāra'' is popular, but it translates a less-commonly used word. Given the distinction that some (such as Ōuyáng) wanted to draw between 唯識 and 法相, we should perhaps respect that difference. By the same token, the majority of people who studied it and wrote about it, did not distinguish between the two. I vote we use "C-O" as the default, as it was the most common generic term. In cases where 法相 is called for, we use ''dharmalakṣaṇa''.
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* Standardize place and organization names
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** But we can also note alternate names on their page
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*** Check.
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* Decide which place names to hyperlink
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** I think provinces and major cities should have their own pages. If there's a smaller city (like Zhènjiāng 鎮江) that's important in the context they can have pages too.
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*** Check, also certain mountains (i.e. 廬山, 金山)
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* Hyperlink ALL names?  
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** We can, but we'll have to make pages for them all.
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*** We can get them as time goes on, better to have them linked right off the bat than have a page for someone but not have them linked.
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'''New Stuff'''
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* I don't think we should link years after 1950, since that's outside of our scope
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** Good call.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 04:44, 8 June 2009 (CST)
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How would you feel if, on the Main Page, we move the box containing the names of the administrators to below the other information?
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 02:46, 3 June 2009 (CST)
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Adding scans of sample title pages of the periodicals is a good idea. I do not have access to the MFQ, and do not have any scans of first pages, so you are on your own with that for now.
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I noticed one thing about the periodical article you just added this morning [[廣長舌]]: As in keeping with the general style of other types of pages, under "References," I have been listing the page of the index by Huang, et al. (a secondary reference work) that gives general information on the periodical (see, for example, [[世界佛教居士林林刊]]), but I see that you are using that space to say which volume of the MFQ that periodical appears in. Might I suggest that we either a) add another section for this information, or b) put that information in the general information section under the dates, etc.
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 22:57, 2 June 2009 (CST)
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--[[User:Erik hammerstrom|Erik hammerstrom]] 00:16, 26 January 2011 (CST)

Current revision as of 00:16, 26 January 2011

Message Board

I have several questions about the choice of page titles.

1) What are your thoughts on romanizations for non-Chinese persons in their file names? E.g. Cressy, Reichelt, Richard. Should we use their English names followed by the 漢字 as the page titles? Also, what about institutions?

2) For some pages (such as 妙善), there are multiple entries, which I have separated into sub-headings. What do you think? This allows the reader to select which person they want to look at, but it does not follow the format we have established for biography pages. --Erik hammerstrom 23:11, 31 March 2010 (CST)

I have created the template Temple_infobox, and have used it for four pages (See "Recent changes"). If you could take a look at it when you get a chance, I would appreciate your feedback.

--Erik hammerstrom 04:57, 3 June 2010 (CST)

After talking to you, I created the page Welch Project. Right now it just contains the list of chapters and headings as found in the book.

--Erik hammerstrom 20:10, 17 June 2010 (CST)

I think double-checking the articles we have before the one year anniversary is a good idea. I will take a look at all the pages for which I am listed as editor. I intend to finish my work on the grant by next Friday (before the one year anniversary). I have currently done 33.5 hours of 54 (around 62%). It looks like most of the most important geographic and temple articles have now been done and I am shifting back to biographies. Today I am going to start doing pages on a few Japanese missionaries and scholars active in China (Mizuno, Tokiwa, Ogurisu, etc.). I am hoping to finally do pages for Liang Qichao and Yinshun this week, too.

If you see anything you think we still really need, let me know and I will get to it.

It looks like you are doing well on the periodical stuff. That's a good sign for your own work. Good luck.

--Erik hammerstrom 00:02, 14 July 2010 (CST)

I still think a clickable map is a good idea, but the one we have right now is a little too small to allow differentiation of places that are close together. If the map was larger I think we should still use it.

I think I understand what you are saying about an intro line with the subject in bold. Had we agreed to do this for all types of articles (such as institution)? I can't recall. I know we wanted to do it with geo, bio, and temple articles. Blank_Institution and Blank_Periodical have not been edited to reflect this, nor has the latter been edited to include an infobox. I will do that now.

On a somewhat related note, I think it would be better if we leave disambiguation information for all articles at the top of the page (as in Foxue yuekan 佛學月刊), and not in any infoboxes (as you have done for Fojiao yuekan 佛教月刊). This is information that the reader should see first thing before proceeding into the article. I think placing it at the top would expedite this.

--Erik hammerstrom 01:37, 20 July 2010 (CST)

Greg, I am mostly fine with having people get approval to join. I say "mostly" for three reasons: First, we may not want to put any barrier up to having people join. Including us, I think we have about 2.5 active registered users currently and we shouldn't do anything that might discourage participation. Second, the system you propose would require us to list our e-mail addresses here, which would probably increase the amount of spam that we each receive (unless we put our addresses up as JPEG files, or use some other such measure). Lastly, the amount of spam accounts we have received has not seemed onerously large to me. This of course may change.

These are my thoughts for now. If you really want to change how registration works, I will go along with it, but I tend to think it is unnecessary right now.

--Erik hammerstrom 01:47, 5 November 2010 (CST)

Standardize First/Subsequent References

I agree with what you propose (using pinyin only for subsequent citations of a term, name, etc. in Chinese).

The one thing I do not agree on is why if the term is part of the article title we do not use bold through the hole line. You suggest leaving the title not bold. It seems that placing the article title in bold is an issue of formatting, akin to placing something in quotation marks. One does not place only part of a term in quotation marks, but the entire string. For example:

  • "Hǎicháo yīn 海潮音 (Sound of the Sea-Tide)"
  • NOT "Hǎicháo yīn 海潮音" (Sound of the Sea-Tide)

Do you see what I mean?

I see what you mean about using half bold, half not bold for main entries, but it seems an unnecessarily complex formatting request. Also, aren't we placing the item in bold font because it is the main entry?

--Erik hammerstrom 00:16, 26 January 2011 (CST)

Retrieved from "http://dmcb.dila.edu.tw/dmcb/User_talk:Greg"
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